Exactly : - )
From our earlier thread:
Which might be seen as a contrast with the “cannot be named” idea above. But seen in another light it emphasizes the creativity of the naming process, the process of resolving the world into objects. So you can say the process of resolving the word into names, or objects, cannot ever be complete. But is always a creative act, and the very incompleteness of it is the well of that constant creativity.
That makes the Daoist statement about naming as perhaps more of a positive act than Translation 5 does. Naming must always fail to be complete. But it is not a failure. It is the very act of creativity. The “ultimate act of freedom” in the Abhivana statement. No less important for the fact of always being fated to be incomplete.
The Abhinava comment struck me, and stayed with me, because I saw a parallel with what I was saying about sources of creativity coming from indeterminacy in ways of structuring natural language.
I think these are important insights about creativity. And that they relate to the limitations on “learning” I’m seeing, firstly when trying to learn language grammar, but applied more broadly to cognitive categories.
We must see that “learning” can never be complete, but that this is a good thing. I’m guessing that it will turn out to be at the very core of what will come to be our understanding of creativity (and also actually freewill, and consciousness.)
By the way, I didn’t want to get too lost in philosophy before. But I couldn’t stop thinking about the translation : - ) For me all the given translations missed some meaning, and they also missed some poetry in English.
Your favourite was:
“Heaven and earth start with no name. The named is the mother of everything under the sun.”
Which is good. But at first I didn’t like the use of the word “start” and “everything under the sun”. “Start” feels abrupt. And “everything under the sun” carries connotations in English of “too much” to my ear.
I attempted an interpretation of my own, using “in the beginning” instead of the more abrupt “start”, and “the multitude of things” instead of the slightly negative to my ear “everything under the sun”:
Heaven and Earth in the beginning have no name. Name is mother to the multitude of things.
But then I wanted the rhyme too!
No name have heaven and Earth at first. Name, all things brings.
So rhyming Earth and birth instead of di and chi. And thing and bring instead of wu and mu.
Or:
Nameless are heaven and Earth at first. Name to the other is mother.
Rhyming Earth and first instead of di and chi. And other and mother instead of wu and mu, to bring back the “mother” theme again.
Just games. But the attempt to capture multiple structures at once, both the meaning, and the rhyme, made me think translation is a good example of the underlying point, that you can have multiple structures in the same thing. And need to be able to structure them in different ways to get the full meaning!