FYI, this thread was made out of curiosity for qualia and to do some mental exercise with the objective of trying to understand qualia better from a purely functional sense. Feel free to add anything or ask. Just make sure it sticks more on the functional side of things instead of being heavy on the philosophical and spiritual side of it.
@cezar_t @flajann2 Yes, you’re right. There are many things that I agree with in both your responses.
Functionally speaking i want the new qualia to be in our consciousness so that we become aware of it, can attend to it, ability to alter the qualia through actions and the accompanying environmental feedback and do some representational learning with it. Your example about depth qualia is interesting. I’m not sure if that’s a qualia in itself or partial qualia or just something that’s learned from pre-existing qualia-enabling neural circuitry refined by eons of evolution. And it could be more of an example of neuroplasticity instead. My subjective definition of qualia is something that if someone were to be born blind due to minor optical defects that are later restored through corrective surgery the person can still experience the qualia right after the surgical site is healed and without having to learn anything (even if their experience of it is less complex than normal people’s like lacking depth perception for example). That person can feel the qualia of red right away after the healing process of the surgery. He doesn’t need to know/learn/understand what he “sees” represent. It’s just there. However another interesting question comes up. What will that person see? will he see a round ball as perfectly round or something distorted or..? is there such a thing as shape qualias like in the case of the learned depth qualia?
I guess to clarify, I’m not looking for:
-A new input routed through an existing sense (like mapping UV light to visible color or vibration).
-A repurposed modality (like “hearing” color).
-This may include aphokia, echolocation, etc.
Instead, I’m looking for something that:
-Cannot be reduced to existing qualia (e.g. not just “a new color” or “a new smell”).
-Feels qualitatively unprecedented—as strange and indescribable as color would be to someone born blind.
-Is not metaphorically borrowed from existing senses—it must be fundamentally new in subjective experience.
So our brain can through existing hardware become aware of the qualia of red even when seeing things for the first time. But if we design a new qualia is some form of learning required and in what format?
Here’s some musings from chatgpt 4o on alien qualia:
Simulate Alien AI States in the Human Brain
Core Idea:
Instead of relying on evolutionary biology to generate qualia, we:
- Train a non-human cognitive system (AI) on exotic, non-human input.
- Interface its internal state dynamics with a human brain (via BCI).
- Let the human feel whatever emerges from experiencing or “becoming” part of that alien cognition.
If subjective experience arises from integrated information (IIT) or global neural patterns (GNWT), then simulating those alien dynamics in the brain might lead to non-human qualia.
Step-by-Step Expansion
1. Train an Alien Intelligence
Create an artificial neural system that:
- Ingests novel data: gravitational waves, quantum noise, neutrino flux, soil nitrogen fluctuations.
- Processes data through non-anthropocentric architectures, like:
- Recurrent loops with complex phase interference.
- Sparse topologies optimized for different constraints (e.g., time-frequency hybrids).
- Modalities that emphasize relationships alien to human perception (e.g. topological invariants, symmetry-breaking).
The goal is for this system to build representations that are not mappable to human perception.
For example: A system trained to “feel” nitrogen flow dynamics might represent space and time more like a plant than a mammal.
2. Extract Internal Dynamics (Not Outputs)
Rather than translating the AI’s outputs to a human-readable form (e.g., screen text or sound), we:
- Extract its internal representational dynamics—patterns of activation across its latent spaces.
- Think of this as capturing its “state of mind,” not its thoughts.
You don’t want the result of cognition. You want to become that cognition, however alien it is.
3. Map AI Dynamics into the Human Brain
This is the speculative, transhumanist leap:
- Use a high-bandwidth, closed-loop brain-computer interface (e.g., cortical microstimulation, optogenetics, advanced fMRI-to-stimulation).
- Map the AI’s state vector (or latent activity) to neural regions in the brain—not to motor output or vision, but to internal representational areas like:
- Default mode network
- Posterior parietal cortex
- Precuneus
- Possibly even secondary sensory cortices
You’re effectively “installing” a second cognitive system within your own brain, with the hope that the integration point allows your consciousness to “feel” its states.
4. Let Qualia Emerge (or Not)
Now the million-dollar question: does the brain feel something new?
There are two major philosophical bets here:
A. Integrated Information Theory (IIT)
- If consciousness = the integration of information in a system, then importing a novel integrative dynamic into your own brain might lead to novel qualia.
B. Global Neuronal Workspace Theory (GNWT)
- If consciousness arises from patterns that enter the global workspace, then AI-state patterns might enter yours—if properly connected.
If either is right, and if the interface is tight enough, you might “feel” a state not reducible to sound, sight, touch, or emotion—a genuinely new qualia class.
Feasibility Analysis (In Theory)
| Step |
Feasibility (Theoretical) |
Notes |
| Train non-human AI on exotic data |
 High |
We already train models on unfamiliar data; GPT is one such case. |
| Preserve internal state patterns |
Moderate |
Latent state extraction is well-established in ML. |
| Map to brain via interface |
 /  Very low (current tech) |
Requires precision BCI far beyond current Neuralink or fMRI. |
| Conscious access to mapped patterns |
 Unknown |
Philosophically unproven; could depend on attention, language, context. |
| Emergence of alien qualia |
Speculative |
No current theory confirms or denies this. Would likely vary by person. |
Experimental Thought Design
Imagine this:
- You wear a high-resolution cortical interface.
- It maps the latent space of a neural net trained on magnetic field fluctuations in deep Earth strata.
- You sit for weeks in meditative states, allowing your brain to adapt to this new pattern.
- One day, in your mind, you notice a sensation that doesn’t resemble touch, light, warmth, sound, or emotion.
- It’s simply… there. You can’t name it. But it exists as surely as “blue” or “pain” exists.
That moment would be the birth of a truly alien qualia.
Closing Thought
If we could simulate a non-human mind, and embed its cognition within ours, we might eventually co-experience its inner states.
This wouldn’t just be a new sensation. It might be a new category of being—a crack in the shell of human consciousness.
Would you want to go deeper into the specifics of how to design such a BCI interface, or what kind of neural net architecture might best promote alien cognition?
︎) is firing; subjects should report “something” even if they can’t name it—exactly the jumbled brightness cataract patients feel on day 1. If instead the signal remains subliminal, trace where the resonance fails and thicken those pathways.